{"id":13446,"date":"2018-08-17T13:35:12","date_gmt":"2018-08-17T17:35:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/?p=13446"},"modified":"2018-08-17T13:43:04","modified_gmt":"2018-08-17T17:43:04","slug":"interview-defend-the-people-not-the-states-says-outgoing-un-human-rights-chief","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/?p=13446","title":{"rendered":"INTERVIEW: \u2018Defend the people, not the States\u2019, says outgoing UN human rights chief"},"content":{"rendered":"
\n

…. HUMAN RIGHTS ….<\/p>\n

An article from the United Nations News Service<\/a><\/p>\n

For four years,\u00a0Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein, the\u00a0United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, has been taking governments across the world to task, exposing human rights violations and robustly advocating for the rights of victims.<\/p>\n

His appointment by the\u00a0Secretary-General\u00a0back in 2014 was a landmark: he became the first Asian, Muslim and Arab ever to hold the post.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
\nOHCHR: Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights meeting with indigenous community leaders in Guatemala. November 2017.
\n<\/center><\/p>\n

Before that, Zeid had already enjoyed a long and distinguished career, both at the UN and as a Jordanian diplomat. He served his country in several capacities, notably as Ambassador to the United States, and Permanent Representative to the United Nations in New York, with a stint as President of the\u00a0Security Council\u00a0in January 2014.<\/p>\n

Throughout his career, Zeid has demonstrated a commitment to international law, playing a major role in the establishment of the\u00a0International Criminal Court, as the first President of the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court – turning the court from an idea into a reality – and, eight years later, overseeing the legal definition of the crime of aggression and the court\u2019s jurisdiction over it.<\/p>\n

In his last major interview with\u00a0UN News, the UN human rights chief tells us that the \u201creal pressure on this job comes from the victims and those who suffer and expect a great deal from us.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cGovernments are more than capable of defending themselves. It\u2019s not my job to defend them. I have to defend civil society, vulnerable groups, the marginalized, the oppressed. Those are the people that we, in our office, need to represent,\u201d he adds, noting that \u201coppression is making a comeback\u201d.<\/p>\n

When asked about whether his view of the UN and what it can achieve has diminished during his time spent speaking out loudly in defence of the abused and defenceless over the past four years, he says:<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s very difficult to tolerate abuse of the UN when I keep thinking of the heroic things that people do in the field, whether the humanitarian actors or humanitarian personnel, my human rights people, the people who are monitoring or observing. And I take my hat off to them. I mean, they are the UN that I will cherish and remember.\u201d<\/p>\n

UN News: When you compare the human rights landscape today to when you took over the UN human rights office back in 2014, what are the key differences that you see?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:\u00a0<\/strong>When I took over, it coincided with the terrible videos put online by Daesh, or ISIS, which stoked a great deal of fear and horror. And we began to see a sort of a deepening of the crisis in Syria and in Iraq. And this then folded into two things:<\/p>\n

One, a great determination to embark on counter-terrorism strategies, which we felt were, in part, excessive in certain respects. Every country has an obligation to defend its people, and the work of terrorism is odious and appalling and needs to be condemned and faced. But whenever there is excessive action, you don\u2019t just turn one person against the State, you turn the whole family against the State. Ten or maybe more members could end up moving in the direction of the extremists.<\/p>\n

And then, the migration debates, and the strengthening of the demagogues and those who made hay out of what was happening in Europe for political profit. As each year passed, we began to see a more intense pressure on the human rights agenda.<\/p>\n

UN News: You have been very outspoken and you\u2019ve called out governments and individual leaders around the world who have abused human rights. Do you see that as the most important role for the UN human rights chief?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes. At the Human Rights High Commission, you\u2019re part of the UN, but also part of the human rights movement and both are equally important. As I said on earlier occasions, governments are more than capable of defending themselves. It\u2019s not my job to defend them. I have to defend civil society, vulnerable groups, the marginalized, the oppressed. Those are the people that we, in our office, need to represent.<\/p>\n

I always felt that that is the principle task: we provide technical assistance, we collect information, we go public on it. But in overall terms, the central duty for us is to defend the rights of those most marginalized and those that need it.<\/p>\n

UN News: what if you come under pressure to stay silent?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, the interesting thing is that the pressure on this particular job doesn\u2019t really come very much from the governments. They all attack the office because we criticize all of them, but we also point to areas where there is improvement, and I sometimes will praise the government for doing the right thing.<\/p>\n

The real pressure on this job comes from the victims and those who suffer and expect a great deal from us. That\u2019s the pressure that I think matters most in terms of the need to do the right thing.<\/p>\n

UN News: Have there been times, therefore, when you\u2019ve had to compromise a bit too much and maybe even let rights campaigners down in some way?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:\u00a0<\/strong>No, not in that sense because I think I\u2019ve been outspoken enough and I think I broke new ground when it came to High Commissioners. I can tell you in almost every meeting I sit with governments and I say things that I know they would never have heard before from someone in the UN.<\/p>\n

No, the enormity of the suffering of people creates a feeling of inadequacy that, no matter what I do \u2014an interview like this, a press conference, a report \u2014 it\u2019s not going to restore a disappeared son or daughter to his or her mother. I know it won\u2019t end the practice of torture immediately. I know that the residents in an IDP [Internally Displaced Peoples] camp, are not going to next day be moved into something more improved.<\/p>\n

And that feeling is the pressure that I\u2019m speaking about. It\u2019s this sort of feeling that no matter what I do, it\u2019s unequal to the colossal challenge that stands before us.<\/p>\n

UN News: Have there been times when you thought it best to use quiet diplomacy to work behind the scenes?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re always trying. We\u2019re always trying to use quiet diplomacy. I mean, we\u2019re constantly meeting with governments, and I send letters, and we conduct phone calls.<\/p>\n

But on occasion we make a determination that we\u2019ve tried these tracks, it hasn\u2019t worked, and that I\u2019m going to go public. Sometimes, I asked my spokesperson to do it; sometimes, I ask my regional office to do it; and other times, I\u2019ll do it myself. But it\u2019s carefully thought through.<\/p>\n

(Article continued in the right side of the page)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Question for this article:<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
\n

\n

Where in the world can we find good leadership today?<\/a><\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

(Article continued from the left side of the page)<\/p>\n

There was one foreign minister, for example, I needed to speak to. We were planning to send a technical mission to his country and, for almost a year, he avoided me. I saw him here in the GA [General Assembly] and he said, \u201cYes, yes, yes,\u201d and then just avoided me. So then, we got a message to him that I\u2019m going to go public tomorrow, and he was on the phone right away.<\/p>\n

And the lesson learned was that if you don\u2019t sometimes threaten to speak out, you don\u2019t grab their attention. And I would rather err on the speaking out part than staying silent.<\/p>\n

I first worked with the UN in 1994, 1995 in the former Yugoslavia. And I saw what catastrophes silence can bring. And I think from that point on, I was determined not to be silent when the evidence before us was presented.<\/p>\n

UN News: What\u2019s touched you most personally in the job? What have been those moments, the encounters with people that have meant the most to you?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:<\/strong>\u00a0There have been many. I think it\u2019s very hard to listen to the suffering of people. One of the times was when I went to the Ilopango detention centre in El Salvador. [Four young women] had been sentenced to 30 years in prison. They claimed these were obstetric emergencies: miscarriages. The State claimed that these were terminations of pregnancy.<\/p>\n

When I sat with them – I had with me a full team, my office, assistants and interpreters – I think within the space of about 10 minutes we were all weeping; we were in tears because their suffering was so extreme. One of them was telling us how her foetus was on the ground and rather than take her to a hospital, they handcuffed her and took her to prison. And I thought the cruelty, the capacity for human cruelty is amazing.<\/p>\n

I saw the president after that and I said, \u201cWhy is it that all these girls are poor? Every single one of them?\u201d It\u2019s as if it\u2019s only the poor that face these sorts of conditions. This is the point that really strikes home that time and again: the poor suffer all the consequences. And that for me was a moment that will always remain with me. And there have been quite a few like that.<\/p>\n

UN News: Is there a specific moment that stands out as being the most difficult or perhaps even the most consequential during your tenure?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s all been difficult. When you\u2019re defending the rights of people, and there\u2019s so much pressure exerted upon you from this deep inner need or desire to help them, it\u2019s all quite tough.<\/p>\n

But I take inspiration from the amazing human rights defenders, journalists, lawyers, activists in so many countries who do amazing, brave things to highlight the plight of others; to defend the rights of others. Whatever I may want to complain about day in, day out, it\u2019s nothing compared to the pressure that these people face, confront, overcome \u2014 often they have no fear.<\/p>\n

These are the real leaders; these are the people that inspire. Not many of the politicians who claim to be leaders and are weak and self-serving, and are leaders in name only. The real leaders are the ones who, against all odds, will do the right thing and then often pay a price for it, and be detained for it.<\/p>\n

And I think that\u2019s what keeps us fuelled and working on their behalf.<\/p>\n

Again, the point to be made is that, yes, we are part of the UN, but we\u2019re also part of a human rights movement. The UN is creating order amongst States: with us, we look at the heart of the relationship between the governing and the governed and so, of course, it\u2019s going to be sensitive.<\/p>\n

People have their rights, the States have their obligations, their commitments. And we have to defend the people.<\/p>\n

UN News: Where do you think you\u2019ve made the biggest difference, personally? And have you made mistakes?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:\u00a0<\/strong>I don\u2019t know. The question ought to be addressed to civil society, victims\u2019 groups, human rights defenders. And if they said, \u201cZeid has done a good job,\u201d I\u2019d be very content with that. If they said, \u201cZeid could have done better,\u201d I\u2019d have to learn to live with it and accept it. It\u2019s really for them to quantify the extent to which I have achieved something or whether they think that I was able to undertake my responsibilities in the right manner.<\/p>\n

UN News: you said that being High Commissioner for Human Rights is a unique job within the UN, and you seem to have followed a fairly similar path to your predecessors in making yourself unpopular with governments. Do you want to see your successor sticking to that path?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:<\/strong>\u00a0The fundamental point that I mentioned earlier is that the States can defend themselves. Our job is not to defend the States, and the law is there for the protection of the weak, not in defence of the strong.<\/p>\n

And so, we look at the law, we look at the obligations of States, and our job is to defend the individual victims, vulnerable communities, marginalized communities, or oppressed communities.<\/p>\n

Oppression is making a comeback. Repression is fashionable again.<\/p>\n

And so, I don\u2019t believe anyone holding this position \u2014 even if they felt differently \u2014 can ultimately conduct business in a manner that departs too radically from the way that I, or my predecessors, have done it. If you try to depart, it will be extremely unpleasant for you because you\u2019re going to hear it from the very people who are suffering. And there can be nothing that will tear at your conscience more, if you abandoned them. So, my belief is that the job defines the conduct.<\/p>\n

UN News: Is there any other key advice you\u2019d give?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:\u00a0<\/strong>I would always say be in good health because it is a demanding job, and it is taxing. Whoever takes this job has to be ready for it. Some jobs in the UN system are viewed as sinecures, retirement posts for national officials. This is not one of them. This requires complete commitment.<\/p>\n

UN News: For you, where to next? And as a seasoned ex-diplomat with so much UN experience, how has doing this job changed your view of the world?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know, maybe I\u2019ll be a journalist!<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve been away from my family; I need to spend time with them and then I\u2019ll look and see what new direction I\u2019d want to take myself. But I need a rest as well.<\/p>\n

UN News: having walked this tightrope, do you feel perhaps a little more appreciative of what the UN does, or perhaps a little less?<\/p>\n

Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein:<\/strong>\u00a0No, if I were to, in the future, think of the UN, I would think of the moments in the field where I see the UN doing amazing things.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s very difficult to tolerate abuse of the UN when I keep thinking of the heroic things that people do in the field, whether they be humanitarian personnel, my human rights people, the people who are monitoring, observing, with some threat to themselves: I take my hat off to them. They are the UN that I will cherish and remember.<\/p>\n

To the outside world, the jargon, the terminology, seems inaccessible. I think that the work that UN personnel do in the field is much more understandable. That\u2019s how I entered the UN, in the field, and that\u2019s how I got to know it. And I think that\u2019s where the UN has enormous impact and needs to continue to make the investment and do the right thing.
\n\u00a0
\nAnd you can also hear Zeid articulating his passion for international justice in a recent\u00a0UN News\u00a0podcast\u00a0<\/a> in which he interviewed Ben Ferencz who, at 99 years of age, is the last surviving prosecutor of the post-war Nuremberg military tribunals and was one of the leading campaigners for an international court.<\/p>\n

(Thank you to Phyllis Kotite, the CPNN reporter for this article.)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

…. HUMAN RIGHTS …. An article from the United Nations News Service For four years,\u00a0Zeid Ra\u2019ad Al Hussein, the\u00a0United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, has been taking governments across the world to task, exposing human rights violations and robustly advocating for the rights of victims. His appointment by the\u00a0Secretary-General\u00a0back in 2014 was a landmark: … Continue reading INTERVIEW: \u2018Defend the people, not the States\u2019, says outgoing UN human rights chief<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[76,13,1,93],"tags":[11,94],"class_list":["post-13446","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-global","category-human-rights","category-uncategorized","category-united-nations","tag-global","tag-united-nations"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13446","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=13446"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13446\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=13446"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=13446"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/english.cpnn-world.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=13446"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}